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Topic: Neugenery

neugenery
posted 1/16/2012  23:32Send e-mail to userReply with quote
Hello,

I'd like to ask just one question, would it's possible to look up a solution in the domain of Algorithm, while the solution is quite in the domain of Uberspikes? (Algorithm Vs Uberspike, which is the view point of the Neugenery)

 http://neugenery.blog.com/

tkorrovi
posted 1/17/2012  11:20Send e-mail to userReply with quote
Yes you are right that the classic IT architecture is restricted and has not enough generality for many tasks, this is what i have told here for many years. You are also right that a part of an alternative solution is to "cognize conceptually", as you put it, but this is not yet the whole truth. Indeed in unrestricted self-developing systems it appears that the basic operations are creating new associations, so such self-developing system is indeed fundamentally different from the classic Turing machine approach and algorithmic approach, which shows that these were limited approaches.

The entire problem though is about unrestrictedness, and there are not many solutions. And these solutions include much more, such as the ouroboros principle, that the old information or knowledge or old representation of knowledge becomes restrictive and must be deleted in some time. The principles of training such things, and much more. So the "cognize conceptually" principle alone is not yet enough for solution, and not many kind of systems can be made with that different approach. Up to realizing that this different approach is a whole different field with whole different principles, and it cannot be done by just slightly extending the classic IT architecture.

And furthemore, the classic IT architecture is still the only good solution, and only after the unrestricted self-developing systems are researched enough so that they can be practically used, there is no real alternative. Except that certain principles, such as regularly deleting obsolete information, and organizing things in more associated way, should be followed in the conventional software development, but these were evident also before, and would not change the "classic architecture" anyhow essentially.

 Artificial Consciousness ADS-AC project

A. Giorgi
posted 1/17/2012  16:17Send e-mail to userReply with quote
Hello,

Very thank you for the nice analysis, here is my comments just for the first part¹ quoted like:

"but this is not yet the whole truth. Indeed in unrestricted self-developing systems it appears that the basic operations are creating new associations, so such self-developing system is indeed fundamentally different from the classic Turing machine approach and algorithmic approach, which shows that these were limited approaches."


The last part is likely the 'squeeze theorem'.

Making such claim derived from the fact that 'cognizing conceptually' has being cognized (by thee) in the domain of algorithms, so it's completely true that the 'cognizing conceptually' "'s not yet ... truth".

In the first place, with all due respect in the domain of 'uberspikes' is not true claim you have made there, because for example, let's consider the situation trying to make a word that describe the definition like 'as a whole', equally we want the phrase/word to be much more suitable to the context we're in, so according to the 'Neugenery' there are options which 'tend' to be deterministically true, to be exact, using squeeze theory; yes, I'm in tune with you, with "unrestricted", but rather deterministic, because the option is wordy, let make reference like the following:

...
the whole lot
the whole (kit and) caboodle
the whole enchilada
the whole ball of wax
on the whole
all-inclusive
in toto
lock, stock and barrel
bag and baggage
...

Now it's situation make 'you' choose from 'your mind lexicon', and/or 'uberspike' from the 'ConceptBase (CB)'; e.g. let's consider the scenario like we're in the woods, and referencing to the definition 'as a whole' the uberspikes make a query (from the CB) and mining like 'the whole nine yards' and/or like 'hollyhock, arbor, and arboetum' as a 'possible phrase' [1] (from Protocol 80), and etc.

Let's get back and consider the quotation "but this is not yet the whole truth" once again, for such definition e.g. "... the whole ..." is partially true, because there are options (in the Neugenery) to choose, 'which they are all true to use', and uberspikes can't to plump for and pinpoint just for one in a unique way, i.e. there are options, so it emphasize them as ‘mot(s) juste(s)’, not list!

But the fact is not every nook and cranny of the CB (ConceptBase) is implemented yet, but due to all theory we've made in, prefigure that the results are overwhelming.


there are lofty, considering your rest document, all is in the paper, I'll try to submit that somewhere, perhaps will be published!


References

[1] Word-formation in English By Ingo Plag


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¹ There are lofty considering the rest of your writings

 http://neugenery.blog.com/
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