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Topic: four-step, two-stage sorting algorithm used by humans and other animals

David Swift
posted 2/19/2017  16:16Send e-mail to userReply with quote
Hi, Sorry I don't know anything about AI per se, and don't mean to offend, but I do know how humans and other learning animals select behavior. Are you interested? It's a sorting algorithm that uses pleasure and pain to set limits on behavior. The same simple four steps used over and over again finds the behavior that produces the most pleasure/least pain. The process is explained at mindexamined.com . (Upper right hand corner, to read by chapter) You might want to start at chapter four which details the four steps, but you'll also want to read the rest of it because it doesn't work the way we have come to expect.
Anyone wanting to work with me to design such a system for computers should contact me at mindexamined@gmail.com. Thanks, Dave


 http://mindexamined.com

tkorrovi
posted 2/20/2017  04:23Send e-mail to userReply with quote
 
David Swift wrote @ 2/19/2017 4:16:00 PM:
Hi, Sorry I don't know anything about AI per se, and don't mean to offend, but I do know how humans and other learning animals select behavior. Are you interested? It's a sorting algorithm that uses pleasure and pain to set limits on behavior.

 
One question, do you believe it yourself?

 Artificial Consciousness ADS-AC project

David Swift
posted 2/20/2017  14:26Send e-mail to userReply with quote
 
tkorrovi wrote @ 2/20/2017 4:23:00 AM:
One question, do you believe it yourself?

 
Hi tkorrovi, I've spent the last forty years trying to figure out how our minds select behavior. I've had the basics for about twenty years and in 2008 Cambridge Scholars (UK) published my thesis, The Epicurean Concept of Mind, Meaning and Knowledge. The Epicurean concept differs from the currently taught Hippocratic concept in that it does not hold that the brain does all the work. Only after, did I realize that the brain misleads us about its operations, which, by the way are completely conscious and available to all of us. The brain severely edits our thought process immediately after any new behavior works. That makes it hard to follow. The brain's editing feature leads to the stereoscopic and inherent meaning illusions that convince us that we can see things where they exist, instead of in our eyes, and that those things have inherent meaning, instead of meaning we attach to them. It's all in the text at mindexamined.com and yes, several others as well as me believe, that while it probably isn't perfect, it's a vast improvement over the Hippocratic model. Why not take ten minutes to check it out? Thanks for your interest. Dave

 http://mindexamined.com

tkorrovi
posted 2/20/2017  16:33Send e-mail to userReply with quote
David,

I don't say that what you found is necessarily wrong. I'm just talking about how you put it. You know, your theory explains everything, all others must therefore be wrong. You suggest that i read your writings, but you likely not even for a moment considered reading my theory. This is general and you may even find that what you found works by it, though maybe only partly, what you are talking about is only one aspect of how it works and what happens, out of many.

I mean, this is not the right way to do science. The research should be done considering everything else known or found, not that my theory is right, yours is wrong, and i am the only one who knows how it is. In research, we all do our part, like i research unrestricted self-developing systems, you maybe find how behavior emerges in such systems. If you put it so that your theory is right and everything else is wrong, then what you did, all your efforts, would just be rejected, and would be useless, while they could add something important with another approach.

Like in this forum, my theory is more or less accepted as a general model, the conventional AI, and also the other AC theories, are a restricted versions of it, or represent one aspect of it. If you read this forum, it has been also repeatedly explained how and why it likely is so. My theory that is, it is not only my theory, if you read it, you find that it is related to other theories of artificial consciousness and consciousness studies. This is an integrated research effort, different from the most common, my theory is right and your theory is wrong, approach.

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David Swift
posted 2/21/2017  12:51Send e-mail to userReply with quote
Really? You spent more time replying to my post than it would take to read enough of my theory to decide if we can work together. I need someone who's interested in solving the problem, not looking for an argument. Is there anyone at this forum who's interested in applying a new theory of animal intelligence to machines? If so contact me. Dave

 http://mindexamined.com

tkorrovi
posted 2/22/2017  12:12Send e-mail to userReply with quote
The Hippocratic concept is that brain does all the work? So how did you significantly improve that concept? Nothing that you wrote enables to explain that. imho.


David Swift
posted 2/22/2017  12:57Send e-mail to userReply with quote
Finally a sensible question! And the answer is in the text at mindexamined.com. I will not respond to any more questions unless you can demonstrate that you have read the text. If you have a theory, please provide a link. Dave


tkorrovi
posted 2/22/2017  13:55Send e-mail to userReply with quote
No, this question has no answer, not all questions have answers. You see the contradictions when your mind is not contaminated by the things that make no sense, yet we are expected to believe.


tkorrovi
posted 2/22/2017  14:10Send e-mail to userReply with quote
Well, one of these things, random mutations. A four year old builds a sand castle, but no matter how much he tries, it comes out ugly. Then he thinks, i will demolish parts of it, and make them differently. Then when i keep doing it for a long time, the sand castle becomes beautiful. That's essentially the same, only expressed in academic terms.


David Swift
posted 2/23/2017  12:59Send e-mail to userReply with quote
Exactly, and now you have used the metaphor of a child building a sand castle to describe evolution. Most people use the monkeys typing randomly and ending up with the bible. The point is that the behavior selection system that evolution designed by trial and error, accident if you will, can be programmed into a machine. AI is currently trying the more primitive reflex solution. Programming for every kind of situation. We also use a feedback system that modifies behavior according to the current situation. Keep reading, it's all there in the text. Dave


tkorrovi
posted 2/23/2017  15:39Send e-mail to userReply with quote
You didn't understand the metaphor, the child will not succeed to make his sand castle beautiful in this way.

 Artificial Consciousness ADS-AC project

David Swift
posted 2/24/2017  12:39Send e-mail to userReply with quote
OK, again I don't mean to offend, but are you currently living in your parent's basement? Do you wear a housecoat all day, smoke drugs and wank? You clearly seek argument not knowledge: get a job, read some books, and leave me alone.


tkorrovi
posted 2/24/2017  14:52Send e-mail to userReply with quote
 
David Swift wrote @ 2/24/2017 12:39:00 PM:
OK, again I don't mean to offend, but are you currently living in your parent's basement? Do you wear a housecoat all day, smoke drugs and wank? You clearly seek argument not knowledge: get a job, read some books, and leave me alone.

 
That's a weird way of reacting to opinions different than yours, especially the ones which you don't happen to understand. But opinions were what you wanted, if you don't want the opinions of others then for goodness sake don't post your writings in places like forums.

Or then go to a forum of behaviorists or something. Where one says, it has really been found that there is such behavior, and others say, yes, yes, there is such behavior, there is such behavior. A very interesting way to argue.

If i wear housecoat and smoke drugs all day, but say interesting things, then guess who people like more, me or you? I have never used drugs though, i can live without them, as my mind is powerful enough to give me the joy that others get by using drugs.

Last edited by tkorrovi @ 2/24/2017 3:01:00 PM

maks
posted 3/9/2017  13:59Send e-mail to userReply with quote
Hi!David Swift
I'd read your work .
There are something along with my thinking about emerging of consciousness.
Physical pleasure and pain are intrinsic property of life propped be some number of neurons fired on .
Survival give a little push to get pleasure and avoid pain.
Physical pleasure and pain is result of neuron's working.
There are people in the world which never feels any physical injuries. Survival for them becomes problem.
Nevertheless that people feels higher level of pain e.g moral pain.
Maybe people would make higher level consciousness
free from any form of feelings.Consciousness Who knows
a lot of pain and pleasure but had never feels it.
What it will be ?
Every cripple want to get physical pleasure.
It's so deeply rooted in humans minds and in humans brains ?
Pleasure, survival and pain is the moving force but not only one to
emerge Consciousness.
There are a lot of instincts as so to say algorithms exist in the brain.
Some amount of degree of freedom and unrestrictednesse
leading us wherethere to heaven or into bedlam.
The last we can witness already now .
Only some odds is, it's 'quantum theory' universe Consciousness
Some people are ready to die to get truth or to be closer to understanding it.
My cat missing me when i get out.It don't want to eat at all.
tkorrovi said good enough about two main feelings.



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